Comments for Out Of My Falkan Mind http://www.timfalk.com/blog Live long and prosper Sat, 31 Dec 2011 10:09:03 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 Comment on June 2010 – Colorado Trip by gwkletzien http://www.timfalk.com/blog/gallery/june-2010-colorado-trip/comment-page-1#comment-6391 gwkletzien Sat, 31 Dec 2011 10:09:03 +0000 http://www.timfalk.com/blog#comment-6391 gBw4go <a href="http://qimnjzbayjic.com/" rel="nofollow">qimnjzbayjic</a> gBw4go qimnjzbayjic

Like: Thumb up 0

]]> Comment on Andy Stanley Is Mistaken, Part 2 by Tim http://www.timfalk.com/blog/archives/574/comment-page-1#comment-5359 Tim Thu, 03 Nov 2011 19:49:00 +0000 http://www.timfalk.com/blog/?p=574#comment-5359 Blessings, Steve! Blessings, Steve!

Like: Thumb up 0

]]> Comment on Andy Stanley Is Mistaken, Part 2 by Steve http://www.timfalk.com/blog/archives/574/comment-page-1#comment-5358 Steve Thu, 03 Nov 2011 19:33:45 +0000 http://www.timfalk.com/blog/?p=574#comment-5358 Tim...again, It didn't matter to Paul. It shouldn't matter to you...unless, all you really want is pumped up replies to your blog...which then, being provocative, really is self-serving to the writer and really nothing about the Gospel. Does what you write really "advance the gospel (Phil 1:12)?...or just a critique of another pastor's methodology. You stand with Andy on the Gospel message and admit he is effective in spreading it, but hold your nose at his methodology? So, the real issue then is does NPCC methods produce committed disciples? Rhetorical question, but non the less, important. I wonder who would be an authority to answer that? Not me. I'll let the Holy Spirit do that. Great dialog, Tim. Be well! Steve Tim…again, It didn’t matter to Paul. It shouldn’t matter to you…unless, all you really want is pumped up replies to your blog…which then, being provocative, really is self-serving to the writer and really nothing about the Gospel. Does what you write really “advance the gospel (Phil 1:12)?…or just a critique of another pastor’s methodology. You stand with Andy on the Gospel message and admit he is effective in spreading it, but hold your nose at his methodology?

So, the real issue then is does NPCC methods produce committed disciples? Rhetorical question, but non the less, important. I wonder who would be an authority to answer that? Not me. I’ll let the Holy Spirit do that.

Great dialog, Tim. Be well!

Steve

Like: Thumb up 0

]]> Comment on Andy Stanley Is Mistaken, Part 2 by Tim http://www.timfalk.com/blog/archives/574/comment-page-1#comment-5336 Tim Wed, 02 Nov 2011 21:46:07 +0000 http://www.timfalk.com/blog/?p=574#comment-5336 Of course, the title is meant to be provocative. The reason why it matters to me is because it seems to me that so many leaders are envious of the "success" of Andy Stanley that they buy into the philosophy and methods without considering if they are worthy of emulating. They see the large numbers you point out, and assume it must be "working." We have become a results-oriented church culture that craves the "mega" and "professional." I think if Jesus doesn't return soon, one day people will look back at this time in church history and feel embarrassed over what we praise today in America as great/successful churches. For a number of reasons, I think that instead of trying to become more like Stanley's church, we might ought to look at the persecuted church as a better model for making committed disciples of Christ. Of course, the title is meant to be provocative. The reason why it matters to me is because it seems to me that so many leaders are envious of the “success” of Andy Stanley that they buy into the philosophy and methods without considering if they are worthy of emulating. They see the large numbers you point out, and assume it must be “working.” We have become a results-oriented church culture that craves the “mega” and “professional.”

I think if Jesus doesn’t return soon, one day people will look back at this time in church history and feel embarrassed over what we praise today in America as great/successful churches. For a number of reasons, I think that instead of trying to become more like Stanley’s church, we might ought to look at the persecuted church as a better model for making committed disciples of Christ.

Like: Thumb up 0

]]> Comment on Andy Stanley Is Mistaken, Part 2 by Steve http://www.timfalk.com/blog/archives/574/comment-page-1#comment-5259 Steve Fri, 28 Oct 2011 13:50:36 +0000 http://www.timfalk.com/blog/?p=574#comment-5259 Tim, the problem I have with this blog is that you titled it: "Andy Stanley Is Mistaken." That is a pretty big swipe at a pastor whom, after reading your blog, you really don't think he is mistaken about the MAJOR things--like the message of the Gospel--you just disagree with his "methods" of doing church. Really? NPCC reaches thousands of people and many of them have come to the knowledge of faith in Jesus through that ministry. I recall Paul in Phillipians 1 discussing with the believers at Philippi the "methodology" of how Christ was preached, He went on to say, "What does it matter? The important thing is that Christ is preached." So, brother, I say to you, what does it matter if Andy does church differently then you? You have already admitted your stand beside him on the Gospel message! Is it necessary to then blog your differences over how you do church and say he is wrong? "What does it matter?" Steve Tim, the problem I have with this blog is that you titled it: “Andy Stanley Is Mistaken.” That is a pretty big swipe at a pastor whom, after reading your blog, you really don’t think he is mistaken about the MAJOR things–like the message of the Gospel–you just disagree with his “methods” of doing church. Really? NPCC reaches thousands of people and many of them have come to the knowledge of faith in Jesus through that ministry. I recall Paul in Phillipians 1 discussing with the believers at Philippi the “methodology” of how Christ was preached, He went on to say, “What does it matter? The important thing is that Christ is preached.” So, brother, I say to you, what does it matter if Andy does church differently then you? You have already admitted your stand beside him on the Gospel message! Is it necessary to then blog your differences over how you do church and say he is wrong? “What does it matter?”

Steve

Like: Thumb up 0

]]> Comment on Why Do We Fear The Gifts Of The Spirit? by Fernanda http://www.timfalk.com/blog/archives/1406/comment-page-1#comment-5253 Fernanda Thu, 27 Oct 2011 22:16:39 +0000 http://www.timfalk.com/blog/?p=1406#comment-5253 Audra, I love hearing that story every time you tell it. That brings up a good point. It actually is easier to share about times we heard God in the past, especially when the message has been so clearly confirmed as it was in your story through you and Tim actually getting married! Maybe that is where we should begin--by making a point to be more open about those stories in our lives where we can be sure today that God either did something for us or told us something. Then we'll have built up a certain level of comfort and trust which will make it easier to also share about the ways we are experiencing God working in our lives right now. Audra, I love hearing that story every time you tell it. That brings up a good point. It actually is easier to share about times we heard God in the past, especially when the message has been so clearly confirmed as it was in your story through you and Tim actually getting married! Maybe that is where we should begin–by making a point to be more open about those stories in our lives where we can be sure today that God either did something for us or told us something. Then we’ll have built up a certain level of comfort and trust which will make it easier to also share about the ways we are experiencing God working in our lives right now.

Like: Thumb up 0

]]> Comment on Why Do We Fear The Gifts Of The Spirit? by Fernanda http://www.timfalk.com/blog/archives/1406/comment-page-1#comment-5252 Fernanda Thu, 27 Oct 2011 22:02:24 +0000 http://www.timfalk.com/blog/?p=1406#comment-5252 It can be messy. I've seen it get downright ugly. I completely understand the hesitation to even go there. Submitting to discernment is uncomfortable because quite frankly, submitting to anyone outside of ourselves is hard on our pride. That's what makes it difficult to submit to Jesus in the first place. I think people will be more likely to take the risk of sharing a prophecy or offering discernment of someone else's prophecy when there is deep trust both in God and in the other people. I don't think it was coincidence that before the Holy Spirit descended upon the disciples in the upper room, not only had they spent much time and had many experiences together in Jesus' company, they had also been earnestly seeking God together in prayer for a solid ten days. I think as uncomfortable as the discernment process can be, when it's all said and done I would prefer to hear the message that while God does indeed speak through people this way, my particular "word from God" is, as you put it, lacking. I think that is better than hearing "God wouldn't speak to you like that in the first place." I think people telling a "prophet" that his message is lacking can do it in a constructive and encouraging way. The point is to help the "prophet" be better at receiving and transmitting God's messages. In that sense it's no different from any other form of constructive criticism. I absolutely agree that submitting to discernment is critical. Our reaction to discernment can also be enlightening. The prophet doesn't always get it right. Those offering discernment don't always get it right either. But God's grace covers all of it and we really can trust Him. Easier said than done. This is definitely worth exploring and pursuing. Count me in :-) It can be messy. I’ve seen it get downright ugly. I completely understand the hesitation to even go there.

Submitting to discernment is uncomfortable because quite frankly, submitting to anyone outside of ourselves is hard on our pride. That’s what makes it difficult to submit to Jesus in the first place. I think people will be more likely to take the risk of sharing a prophecy or offering discernment of someone else’s prophecy when there is deep trust both in God and in the other people. I don’t think it was coincidence that before the Holy Spirit descended upon the disciples in the upper room, not only had they spent much time and had many experiences together in Jesus’ company, they had also been earnestly seeking God together in prayer for a solid ten days.

I think as uncomfortable as the discernment process can be, when it’s all said and done I would prefer to hear the message that while God does indeed speak through people this way, my particular “word from God” is, as you put it, lacking. I think that is better than hearing “God wouldn’t speak to you like that in the first place.”

I think people telling a “prophet” that his message is lacking can do it in a constructive and encouraging way. The point is to help the “prophet” be better at receiving and transmitting God’s messages. In that sense it’s no different from any other form of constructive criticism.

I absolutely agree that submitting to discernment is critical. Our reaction to discernment can also be enlightening. The prophet doesn’t always get it right. Those offering discernment don’t always get it right either. But God’s grace covers all of it and we really can trust Him. Easier said than done.

This is definitely worth exploring and pursuing. Count me in :-)

Like: Thumb up 0

]]> Comment on Why Do We Fear The Gifts Of The Spirit? by Audra http://www.timfalk.com/blog/archives/1406/comment-page-1#comment-5250 Audra Thu, 27 Oct 2011 21:23:45 +0000 http://www.timfalk.com/blog/?p=1406#comment-5250 I like it when people share stories about miraculous things that God has orchestrated in their lives. I think we all have those stories, but we tend to keep them in our hearts instead of sharing them. Perhaps if we all shared our experiences without fear of censure we would find that God working and speaking in concrete and miraculous ways is really not so uncommon. One time God spoke to me (and I did not hear this in an audible voice--I have never been privileged with that experience--but I believe it was God beyond a shadow of a doubt) was when He brought the two of us together. I had only recently met you and we were maybe, at best, acquaintances. I was sitting in my parents' kitchen with my mom and I told her, "You know, if Tim Falk asked me to marry him, I would say yes." I was as surprised to hear the words come out of my mouth as I'm sure she was to hear them! It was really cool, and I hope to have more experiences like that in my lifetime. I like it when people share stories about miraculous things that God has orchestrated in their lives. I think we all have those stories, but we tend to keep them in our hearts instead of sharing them. Perhaps if we all shared our experiences without fear of censure we would find that God working and speaking in concrete and miraculous ways is really not so uncommon.

One time God spoke to me (and I did not hear this in an audible voice–I have never been privileged with that experience–but I believe it was God beyond a shadow of a doubt) was when He brought the two of us together. I had only recently met you and we were maybe, at best, acquaintances. I was sitting in my parents’ kitchen with my mom and I told her, “You know, if Tim Falk asked me to marry him, I would say yes.” I was as surprised to hear the words come out of my mouth as I’m sure she was to hear them! It was really cool, and I hope to have more experiences like that in my lifetime.

Like: Thumb up 1

]]> Comment on Why Do We Fear The Gifts Of The Spirit? by Tim http://www.timfalk.com/blog/archives/1406/comment-page-1#comment-5245 Tim Thu, 27 Oct 2011 19:30:38 +0000 http://www.timfalk.com/blog/?p=1406#comment-5245 Thanks for sharing, Nanda. I do think that if someone claims to hear something from God, it is only fair that the message be critiqued as to whether it's from God or not. I agree that can be a scary process, especially for the person who shared the message. It can be equally uncomfortable for those critiquing...if we find the message to be lacking, will this person just accuse us of rejecting God's message? Will their feelings be hurt? However, if we seriously believe God can speak through us, how important it is that discern what is His voice and what isn't. Sometimes, we are convinced God is speaking, and in reality, it's only our soap-boxes or just illusions. This is another reason people avoid gifts of the Spirit--it can be very messy. Thanks for sharing, Nanda. I do think that if someone claims to hear something from God, it is only fair that the message be critiqued as to whether it’s from God or not. I agree that can be a scary process, especially for the person who shared the message. It can be equally uncomfortable for those critiquing…if we find the message to be lacking, will this person just accuse us of rejecting God’s message? Will their feelings be hurt? However, if we seriously believe God can speak through us, how important it is that discern what is His voice and what isn’t. Sometimes, we are convinced God is speaking, and in reality, it’s only our soap-boxes or just illusions. This is another reason people avoid gifts of the Spirit–it can be very messy.

Like: Thumb up 1

]]> Comment on Why Do We Fear The Gifts Of The Spirit? by Fernanda http://www.timfalk.com/blog/archives/1406/comment-page-1#comment-5244 Fernanda Thu, 27 Oct 2011 19:14:13 +0000 http://www.timfalk.com/blog/?p=1406#comment-5244 I really appreciate the raw honesty here. I have often found myself (or at least perceived that I found myself) on the receiving end of this discomfort. Even though I grew up in the Charismatic movement where we did see supernatural manifestations, especially in prophecies, today I am extremely reluctant to share anything that I believe God has told me to the Christians in my life, and if I do share it I present it as something I came up with even if I would rather say that God flat out told me. I guess I sense their discomfort though I have not been able to articulate it like this, and certainly would never accuse anyone else of preferring a God who remains in the shadows. I think I would like to be more honest where if I believe God has spoken to me I just say so. I wouldn't want people to assume that means they can't question what I say. I also would still submit myself and any word I received from God to discernment--also an uncomfortable process. But it would be nice to be up front about where I believe the information or inspiration is coming from. On the flip side, what you say is also true about me. On one hand, I believe that without a God who really does intervene in human affairs, who really does speak and act in unexpected and blatant ways, there isn't much point to much of what we do as Christians--it's holding to a form of God while denying His power. On the other hand, the idea of God truly taking center stage and showing His power absolutely terrifies me in a similar way that the thought of actually handing over control of my life to Jesus (though I do it anyway) is frightening to me. I think when it comes to God's visible power the place I'm at now is something like "Lord, I believe. Help my unbelief." I really appreciate the raw honesty here. I have often found myself (or at least perceived that I found myself) on the receiving end of this discomfort. Even though I grew up in the Charismatic movement where we did see supernatural manifestations, especially in prophecies, today I am extremely reluctant to share anything that I believe God has told me to the Christians in my life, and if I do share it I present it as something I came up with even if I would rather say that God flat out told me. I guess I sense their discomfort though I have not been able to articulate it like this, and certainly would never accuse anyone else of preferring a God who remains in the shadows. I think I would like to be more honest where if I believe God has spoken to me I just say so. I wouldn’t want people to assume that means they can’t question what I say. I also would still submit myself and any word I received from God to discernment–also an uncomfortable process. But it would be nice to be up front about where I believe the information or inspiration is coming from.

On the flip side, what you say is also true about me. On one hand, I believe that without a God who really does intervene in human affairs, who really does speak and act in unexpected and blatant ways, there isn’t much point to much of what we do as Christians–it’s holding to a form of God while denying His power. On the other hand, the idea of God truly taking center stage and showing His power absolutely terrifies me in a similar way that the thought of actually handing over control of my life to Jesus (though I do it anyway) is frightening to me. I think when it comes to God’s visible power the place I’m at now is something like “Lord, I believe. Help my unbelief.”

Like: Thumb up 1

]]>